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Post by Gunman_sr5 on Jul 29, 2005 21:10:15 GMT -5
For me. I grew up with G1 but I don't have blinders. Beast Wars blows everything else out of the water.
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Post by s.marlinfan on Jul 29, 2005 21:43:42 GMT -5
I'm just a bitter old stuck in my ways closed minded G1 fan. So there is my vote.
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Post by Destro on Jul 29, 2005 22:32:58 GMT -5
As far as toons go, bw is the best by far w/ g1 coming in at a distant second. The best tf toyline would be either g1 or energon, but armada had some gems, as did rid and bw, and cybertron looks like it has the potential to surplant g1 and energon as best toyline.
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Post by CkRtech on Jul 29, 2005 23:35:03 GMT -5
G1, easily.
Beast Wars tried too hard & ended up with nothing but a comedy of a show.
Everything else falls on its face, pretty much.
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Post by s.marlinfan on Jul 30, 2005 0:23:08 GMT -5
G1, easily. Beast Wars tried too hard & ended up with nothing but a comedy of a show. Everything else falls on its face, pretty much. Well put CK.
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Post by Destro on Jul 30, 2005 16:55:40 GMT -5
G1, easily. Beast Wars tried too hard & ended up with nothing but a comedy of a show. Everything else falls on its face, pretty much. I've never really understood why you see bw as a comedy ck. I'll admit there was a lot of humor in the show and at times it didn't take itself seriously enough, but it was still much more dramatic than g1. I mean w/o even mentioning the g1 dud eps like "carnage in c-minor", "the girl who loved powerglide", etc., g1 wasn't very dramatic. Granted it was an 80's kids show and times have changed, but you can't tell me the deaths of characters in g1 were anywhere near as dramatic as the deaths in bw for the most part. Ops' death scene (or "fight-to-the-death" scene I should say..) was weak, as were the deaths of windcharger, ironhide, etc. The deaths of Dinobot and Transmutate were the two best "death eps" in any tf cartoon; g1 can't come close.
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Post by StrykerX2K on Jul 30, 2005 17:20:34 GMT -5
I thought Beast Wars/Beast Machines was the best....second place goes to G1, though. RID, is 3rd.
BW/BM was what got me back into collecting. I loved the toon and animation. I still look for the BW/BM figs I don't have. I thought the story was great as it had an intersesting storyline, instead of all the stand alones and 3-5 parters like G1. (I liked those, but in a different way)
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Post by CkRtech on Jul 30, 2005 17:24:37 GMT -5
Hmm. Well, the last thing I said after code of hero was "Oh pleeeease." Didn't stir me one bit. While some people on TNI said "you're cruel, man" - I am just making the point that I didn't "connect" to the show. (and that is something that is important for an ongoing TV series of any type, imho)
The thing about G1 for me is that while it was episodic in nature, it was original. Cybertron, the Matrix, Vector Sigma, Optimus, Megatron, Teletran-1, Alpha Trion, Orion Pax, etc...etc.. was all there & it was new. For some reason, all other shows have had to basically copy (and completely rewrite from time to time) the information that was presented in the original Transformers show.
I liked Beast Wars season 1 a lot (still do) - but as it tried to tie into the original, it really started going downhill. I think they were trying too hard to constantly connect Beast Wars to the original & this caused Beast Wars to lose its own "originality." The characters were given a basic personality and were written into that personality SO hard, that a lot of the things they said and did seemed unoriginal...only because they acted the same way in just about every episode.
Could it be because they weren't given enough characters to work with? Possibly. You could compare say....the earlier characters of Tigertron and Airazor to later characters Silverbolt and Quickstrike. Lord have mercy! Silverbolt and Quickstrike were SO overdone that they made me sick. Tigertron and Airazor - they didn't have a pigeon-holed, rock-hard personality like some of the other characters....and that was good. They helped the show by adding a "normal/average" set of characters that helped achieve balance. This was needed more in the later seasons, but we got more of the stereotyped personalities.
I tell you what I want to see - I want to see a new Transformers cartoon that is done without Cybertron, Unicron, Optimus Prime, Megatron, Starscream, the Matrix....any of that. I would like to see a team of writers sit down and just write a freakin' cartoon on their own.
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Post by StrykerX2K on Jul 30, 2005 17:29:27 GMT -5
That sounds like a good idea. I would love to see a whole rewrite with no OP or Megs. Just start from the ground up and make it The New Transformers. But man what a raucus that would cause....heheheh!
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Post by Gunman_sr5 on Jul 30, 2005 17:47:39 GMT -5
I don't think Hasbro would risk not having Optimus and Megatron.
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Post by Devastator_2000 on Jul 30, 2005 19:00:35 GMT -5
I voted for G1, but I think that BW is a fairly close second. I would give RID 3rd place. The rest are junk.
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Post by Rodimusconvoy on Jul 30, 2005 19:18:25 GMT -5
I'm with Gunman and Destro on this one, Beast Wars proved to the world that transformers was for real. About the connections to the original show, well, I think it as more intended to tie G1 fans to the actual series than anything else. I loved when Screamer's ghost made an apareance, when the vok took the form of Unicron's head, when the nemesis arised, etc.
I loved that. Btw, I also enjoyed Beast Machines, the toys were a little weird but I can say it was a different show, with a awesome animation.
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Post by Destro on Jul 30, 2005 22:51:40 GMT -5
Hmm. Well, the last thing I said after code of hero was "Oh pleeeease." Didn't stir me one bit. While some people on TNI said "you're cruel, man" - I am just making the point that I didn't "connect" to the show. (and that is something that is important for an ongoing TV series of any type, imho) And prime's fight w/ megs in the movie wasn't an "oh please" moment? Waspinator could've taken more damage and lived to complain it. Also, what I like about dinobot was that he changed. He began as a self-serving pred, and, after some bumps along the way, became a hero. What g1 character changed that much? BW did introduce the idea of sparks, and you know if the canon was completely thrown out the window for each new series the old school fans would scream bloody murder. G1 was first, so it set the ground rules. There is also the fact that primal is, unlike every other series, not a prime, and it's the first to have real animal alt modes. I'll admit some of the characters could be annoying at times, but I prefer them to the "Zap! Blam!" of warpath, wheelie's rhymes, and blurr's speed speech. I mean, I prefer a little annoyance to incomprehensible speech patterns. Also, even if it was sometimes unoriginal, bw had the best dialogue of any tf series. What do you think of characters like tarantulas? It was nice to have something of a third faction in the show. What you say about qs and sb I could say about a dozen g1 characters. Maybe the show could've used more characters, but one thing I didn't like about g1 was that there were too many characters. You'd see an ep dedicated to one of them, then rarely here from them again. And some just disappeared. What happened to trypticon? Superion? Omega Supreme? etc., etc. I don't know if I'd want that or not; I like seeing the matrix and cybertron. The rest (unicron, megs, prime) can be shelved for awhile, but I think any tf mythos requires, if nothing else, cybertron and the matrix. And, just let me say I'm not trying to be a jerk here ck; this is all obviously just one tf geek's opinion. Just wanna make sure we're cool and all.
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Post by CkRtech on Jul 31, 2005 0:52:51 GMT -5
Hey it's cool. I understand the different sides. but comparing the two is also kinda awkward because it is like comparing different "eras" of any given thing (in this case - cartoons). The eighties cartoons approached their audience in a different manner than shows in the 90s (and I think that there is yet another era in today's cartoons). While Beast Wars could have had too few characters, it is quite possible that G1 had too many. The thing was - Hasbro had just about every single Transformer toy introduced in the original show. A lot of personality writing was (as they say) "written off." Hahaha. They went for more of the voice traits and that sort of thing & really only developed the main characters personalities. I think a major weakness was the season 3 autobots - Springer, Ultra Magnus, Rodimus Prime, and Arcee just.....didn't really fit together the same way that Prime, Jazz, Bumblebee, Spike, Sparkplug, Ironhide, Ratchet, Wheeljack & the gang fit together. I think that had season 4 continued, things would have been much better. I disagree with Prime/Megatron battle, so I'll give specific counterpoint on it vs Code of Hero. I believe the Prime/Megatron battle to be pretty classic & lines from it are quoted all over the place from sigs to fan fiction....everything. It has quite its own cult following. I don't see it as cheese at all. It fits with the times. The deaths presented in Transformers the movie were much more grave than any other things that I have seen in other Transformer toons. (Honestly have not seen Beast Machines though - can't say much there) Transmutate was good - but completely different. It was a one-shot type thing whereas the shuttle deaths + Prime's death hit harder because we were more familiar with the characters. Beast Wars had several major faults that caused Code of Hero to not work with me - 1: By this point in the series, there were more annoying characters than cool ones. 2: The comedy. - It came from every angle & it came all the time. The slapstick that was present everywhere. Waspinator got old after season 1 - they should have dumped him. - I actually started watching episodes with the intent of trying to hear three consecutive lines from Rattrap that did not involve some sort of poke or punchline. Never happened. - Characters were blown apart so often, it meant nothing. - Megatron's rubber duck. Something meant to be funny, but was lost in the three stooges approach to story-telling. - Quickstrike is Quickstrike & Silverbolt is Silverbolt. Enough said. 3: The surroundings. The setting didn't work well because there was no way to have enough proper interaction with the environment. The computers, interplanetary travel, and the "robots in modern day earth" of the original series opened all sorts of doors here. Beast Wars (because it was "Beast Wars") did not have this really available. Although it did have its share of outrageous phenomenon, it had a limit on this aspect from the start. Probably the number one thing I didn't like though was - The "primative" human race. That really put a blow on the show for me personally. ----- With those reasons above (mostly the end of #3), there was no real way for code of hero to work out for me. Oh - and I did like Tarantulas.
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Post by Rodimusconvoy on Jul 31, 2005 6:28:55 GMT -5
You are a big Generation 1 fan Ck, seriously. What I really saw in G1 is, that there wasnt really a main plot behind it, BW did has at least 3. Maybe is what CK (I think ) said, 2 series written for 2 different decades. I believe that.
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Post by Gunman_sr5 on Jul 31, 2005 12:15:22 GMT -5
To get my 2 cents in on the above. Primary reasoning now for BW is the sdult humor that came in every so often. Also BW was the first transformers series to realy do something and stick with it. It didn't bounce around leaving loose ends. Every time something happend it was noticable in the rest of the series that it happend. G1 something could hapen in one episode. Then in the next its like it never happend.
Now for a new cartoon aspect. Keep Cybertron and the Matrix. Do the Japan G1 thing. Kill off the previous Prime and Megatron and pass the Matrix. Give us new heroes to worship. As I said above though. Hasbro will not make the marketing mistake of dumping those 2 guys off again.
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Post by CkRtech on Jul 31, 2005 18:49:11 GMT -5
I think they could do better with marketing if the cartoon and toys were just .....better. Hahaha.
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Post by Gunman_sr5 on Jul 31, 2005 18:51:15 GMT -5
We need a new network to. Right now Catoon Network is doing ok, but they will eventualy move Cybertron. Its just time to move on.
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Post by CkRtech on Jul 31, 2005 21:29:54 GMT -5
If I had the funds, I would totally start my own cartoon station.
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Post by Jo'Roq on Aug 1, 2005 19:01:26 GMT -5
BW with G1 as a close second. Beast Wars wins out simply because I could marathon it, but G1 I can't take more than a few eps at a time. Just too much 80s cheese (even though I still prefer it to much of the current styles) ....
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